I could only take it in very small doses, and actually changed the channel for long stretches.Palin’s voice is like fingernails on the chalkboard to me, and her Daisy Mae hokum is stomach-churning. I note Sully’s paraphrase of the CNN instant poll:It gives the debate decisively to Biden, 51 to 36 percent. Palin did better than expected but Biden crushed her in the polling. And the question of whether the debate changed people’s views of her ability to be president: basically no change.Drill Baby Drill.
As always, it is the post-debate narrative that matters most. And that usually focuses on a matter of style, absent a particular gaffe.So her phony, “gee, golly, bum-diggity” routine is easily lampooned by SNL etc.
I thought they both did a decent job, similiar to the first presidential debate. I’d give a slight edge to Biden on points — as long as you ignore the lack of substance on either side. Palin was worse about turning a question into an opportunity to give a speech on barely related issues, which I find irritating in debates–although they all do it. But I think she answered all critics regarding her intellectual capacity. She can hold her own in a debate.”Palin’s voice is like fingernails on the chalkboard to me”That’s funny, I think her voice is rather pleasant.”her Daisy Mae hokum is stomach-churning.”Why? I find it amusing that she provokes irrational hatred among leftists merely by the way she speaks.
I didn’t watch it, but took a close look around after to see what’s clicking with people. The defining moment seems to have been Biden talking about the tragic loss of his wife, and his empathy for the problems of other families. Sarah’s response was basically “Whatever. let me tell you why McCain is a maverick”. Some people are going as far as calling her a psychopath – someone totally incapable of understanding the emotions of others. I think that’s stretching it, but she does seem to be a very cold woman under the Ned Flanders folksiness. She never seems to show much warmth to her family members on stage. I see a lot more human emotion with Obama and his family. His kids really seem to like him, and I thought the fist-bump was one of the most touching scenes I’ve seen in politics in decades.
David C, you’ll go for any mediocrity so long as it’s dressed as a Republican.The opinion in the press seems to be that her “decent job” amounted to avoiding making a complete fool of herself.No points for your faux-Olympian “amusement” at my “leftist irrational hatred.”
" you'll go for any mediocrity so long as it's dressed as a Republican."This should be obvious, but preferring Republicans as a lesser of two evils is far different than accepting anything because it's labeled Republican. I have problems with a lot of Republicans and Republican actions, and there were plenty of things I disliked about Palin in that debate — such as her idiotic Wall St. bashing."The opinion in the press seems to be that her "decent job" amounted to avoiding making a complete fool of herself."Anyone who actually watched the debate and isn't a blind partisan knows that she did a decent job, whether she won or not, far above the level of just not making a fool of herself. I know its difficult to admit being proved wrong about her abilities, but you might try being a little more honest about it."The defining moment seems to have been Biden talking about the tragic loss of his wife, and his empathy for the problems of other families. Sarah's response"Except that you left out the fact that she had just gotten done talking extensively about her family. He was responding. She had already spoken and was moving on. It might help if you actually watched the debate. Your attempted psychoanalysis of her seems pretty crazy and baseless.Again, I don't get the insane left-wing hatred of Palin, the need to project all sorts of things onto her, to make up lies & spread rumors about her, and to attack her personally in every way possible. Is she that big of a threat to the left? She's a vp candidate on an underdog Republican ticket. Until recently she was little known outside of Alaska. You'd think she was George Bush or something.
I actually watched the whole damn thing. Which is unusual for me because I find politicians grating at best mainly because they never answer the question they are asked.Palin, did what she needed to which was stand the heat for 90 minutes and conect with the GOP base and middle America. Say, what you like but I think the positive net effect for the McCain campaign will come out in the wash. Now, before you hippe’s go nuts on me realise that my opinion is stated respecting what I think the public’s perception will be/is.Biden didn’t do half bad himself. Debates from what I remember of the primary are his forte. However, all the Bama ticket could hope for on this was that Palin scew up not Biden hitting it out of the park.In short to the more politically absorbed types, meaning geeks that actually follow politics like some follow sports, Palin came off as a little bumkinish and Biden came off some what as a politician. From reading everyone’s comments above it seems beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Biden beat her handily on substance, style, and points. She managed to bring herself into a position where many people can begin to view her as a potential VP. Although her strategy of not even providing a nodding answer to several questions was bothersome. I took it to mean that she was unprepared to answer the question. Presidents and VPs can’t be seen to duck important questions. Pity she doesn’t have Biden’s ability to open his mouth and spout BS at a moments notice.I was disappointed that the moderator didn’t reveal her potential conflict of interest. I suppose that, unlike physicians publishing in medical journals (where disclosure is mandatory), journalists are assumed to be ethically equipped to stay impartial.
I will concede that there were no catastrophic gaffes by Palin, but I saw what I expected – a dozen canned mini-speeches, thrown out whether they fit the question or not. I didn’t expect any Couric-style floundering, but I’d still love to see her in a real press conference. Remember, if she can’t face the press, how will she face Putin? As for Biden, I wouldn’t have picked him in a primary, but he looks like he’s up to the job of President if the worst should happen.
“Biden beat her handily on substance, style, and points.”I thought it was much closer, and that they both got in some good shots.”her strategy of not even providing a nodding answer to several questions was bothersome.”Yes, that was annoying. I hate when politicians use a question as an opportunity to make a speech on something else. That’s why I thought Biden did better. He actually answered more of the questions, although he did go off on tangents also. “Pity she doesn’t have Biden’s ability to open his mouth and spout BS at a moments notice.”Yeah, except that was all it was from Biden — just the same lame Democratic talking points everyone has heard thousands of times. I wish she had attacked some of them more effectively.”I was disappointed that the moderator didn’t reveal her potential conflict of interest.”True, although I don’t think it was any factor in the debate. Ifill basically just let them talk, and I didn’t think any of her questions were biased one way or the other.
David,Her not answering struck me as being due to her memorizing only a limited number of answers. If she got something other than what she had prepared for, her handlers likely told her to bring up one of her pat responses. Admitidly, most politicians use pat answers in these sorts of debates – it was just frustrating that she had so few of them.In any case, you’re right, she did get in some good shots, and seemed fairly at ease in the portions I watched (congrats to JTM for watching the whole thing).
The more I think about it, the phonier she seems. McCain, Clinton, Obama, Huckabee, Biden, etc. (while we can argue about who’s the bigger liar) basically seem to be who they are. Genuine, if only in the presentation of their personality.Does anyone buy Daisy Moo’s hokum routine?
“The more I think about it, the phonier she seems”Why? She’s from Alaska and is basically a small town person. Why wouldn’t that be her actual personality? I’ve known quite a few people who have a simliar manner of speaking, (especially Southern women). I guess it could be an act, but without knowing her in person, it’s kind of hard to tell if she talks that way all the time.Also, since many people have been questioning her qualifications, wouldn’t she want to sound a bit more polished and cosmopolitan, rather than like a country girl?
“Biden beat her handily on substance, style, and points”I am wondering if Biden’s claim that the US with the help of France drove Hezzbollah out of Lebanon was a test of Palin to see if she would catch such a blunder.I mean it never happened and we are told that Biden was on the ticket because he is an expert on Foreign policy, so MUST have said it on purpose? I mean the Democrat’s expert on Foreign Policy could be not really BE that clueless, could he???
“The more I think about it, the phonier she seems”Why?”I know it is “hateful leftist” territory, but check out this post, “Desperate,” over at TPM. Mind you, “Troopergate” was an inquiry Palin initially “welcomed,” before she became a national VP candidate that is.Oh, I know you’ll revert to your patented “not proven” mode, but for my money, your folksy “country girl” from the backwoods is really this:Both as mayor and governor, Palin has shown the tell-tale signs of a politician who hires cronies and fires or blackballs critics. This part of Palin’s record gets deep in the weeds. So it’s not as flashy as the boffo interviews or and irresistible as the straight-up lies she’s been caught in. But we need no closer example than the Bush administration to know that people like this are dangerous and corrosive to our public institutions.MaCain should have vetted Daisy Mae. This is one roll of the dice that I think will come up snake eyes.
Redhand,Even if such accusations were true, which is highly doubtful (left-wing sites have been making stuff up about Palin since she was nominated), they aren’t really relevant to what I’m asking. How does it benefit her to sound like a simple country girl, when her qualifications for vice president have been under heavy attack?Also, even if she was the corrupt scheming politican of the left’s caricature, how would that prevent her from having the same style of speech?”MaCain should have vetted Daisy Mae. This is one roll of the dice that I think will come up snake eyes.”We’ll see. So far she’s been a plus for him politically. If he loses, it probably isn’t going to be because of Palin.
Also, even if she was the corrupt scheming politican of the left’s caricature, how would that prevent her from having the same style of speech?I’m not quite sure what your point is here, but note Sully’s post, Listen to the Accent. His comment:Just compare this recording of Palin in Alaska in 2006 to what you heard last night. Ask yourself where the folksiness is. See how many times she says “doggone” in 2006. Or “betcha”. Or “Joe Six-Pack”. Make up your own mind. In my judgment she is the biggest fraud we have seen in national politics in generations. She makes the Clintons look honest, and Nixon look as if he has nothing to hide.
Palin was scripted, but she managed to come off as a reasonable debater, I think. I read analysis after the debate about how Biden figured she was scripted and used the opportunity to take free shots at McCain. That makes sense, but she didn’t seem that scripted to me. She didn’t even seem incoherent – her run-ons weren’t any worse than Biden’s repetition.What did bother me was Palin’s assholish mention of Biden’s wife. Biden said something about the importance of teachers. Palin said, “Your wife, she was a teacher, she’s in heaven now, right?”, smirking without any trace of empathy or humanity.McCain wanted a woman as his VP, but got a gynoid instead.
I could only take it in very small doses, and actually changed the channel for long stretches.Palin’s voice is like fingernails on the chalkboard to me, and her Daisy Mae hokum is stomach-churning. I note Sully’s paraphrase of the CNN instant poll:It gives the debate decisively to Biden, 51 to 36 percent. Palin did better than expected but Biden crushed her in the polling. And the question of whether the debate changed people’s views of her ability to be president: basically no change.Drill Baby Drill.
As always, it is the post-debate narrative that matters most. And that usually focuses on a matter of style, absent a particular gaffe.So her phony, “gee, golly, bum-diggity” routine is easily lampooned by SNL etc.
I thought they both did a decent job, similiar to the first presidential debate. I’d give a slight edge to Biden on points — as long as you ignore the lack of substance on either side. Palin was worse about turning a question into an opportunity to give a speech on barely related issues, which I find irritating in debates–although they all do it. But I think she answered all critics regarding her intellectual capacity. She can hold her own in a debate.”Palin’s voice is like fingernails on the chalkboard to me”That’s funny, I think her voice is rather pleasant.”her Daisy Mae hokum is stomach-churning.”Why? I find it amusing that she provokes irrational hatred among leftists merely by the way she speaks.
I didn’t watch it, but took a close look around after to see what’s clicking with people. The defining moment seems to have been Biden talking about the tragic loss of his wife, and his empathy for the problems of other families. Sarah’s response was basically “Whatever. let me tell you why McCain is a maverick”. Some people are going as far as calling her a psychopath – someone totally incapable of understanding the emotions of others. I think that’s stretching it, but she does seem to be a very cold woman under the Ned Flanders folksiness. She never seems to show much warmth to her family members on stage. I see a lot more human emotion with Obama and his family. His kids really seem to like him, and I thought the fist-bump was one of the most touching scenes I’ve seen in politics in decades.
David C, you’ll go for any mediocrity so long as it’s dressed as a Republican.The opinion in the press seems to be that her “decent job” amounted to avoiding making a complete fool of herself.No points for your faux-Olympian “amusement” at my “leftist irrational hatred.”
" you'll go for any mediocrity so long as it's dressed as a Republican."This should be obvious, but preferring Republicans as a lesser of two evils is far different than accepting anything because it's labeled Republican. I have problems with a lot of Republicans and Republican actions, and there were plenty of things I disliked about Palin in that debate — such as her idiotic Wall St. bashing."The opinion in the press seems to be that her "decent job" amounted to avoiding making a complete fool of herself."Anyone who actually watched the debate and isn't a blind partisan knows that she did a decent job, whether she won or not, far above the level of just not making a fool of herself. I know its difficult to admit being proved wrong about her abilities, but you might try being a little more honest about it."The defining moment seems to have been Biden talking about the tragic loss of his wife, and his empathy for the problems of other families. Sarah's response"Except that you left out the fact that she had just gotten done talking extensively about her family. He was responding. She had already spoken and was moving on. It might help if you actually watched the debate. Your attempted psychoanalysis of her seems pretty crazy and baseless.Again, I don't get the insane left-wing hatred of Palin, the need to project all sorts of things onto her, to make up lies & spread rumors about her, and to attack her personally in every way possible. Is she that big of a threat to the left? She's a vp candidate on an underdog Republican ticket. Until recently she was little known outside of Alaska. You'd think she was George Bush or something.
I actually watched the whole damn thing. Which is unusual for me because I find politicians grating at best mainly because they never answer the question they are asked.Palin, did what she needed to which was stand the heat for 90 minutes and conect with the GOP base and middle America. Say, what you like but I think the positive net effect for the McCain campaign will come out in the wash. Now, before you hippe’s go nuts on me realise that my opinion is stated respecting what I think the public’s perception will be/is.Biden didn’t do half bad himself. Debates from what I remember of the primary are his forte. However, all the Bama ticket could hope for on this was that Palin scew up not Biden hitting it out of the park.In short to the more politically absorbed types, meaning geeks that actually follow politics like some follow sports, Palin came off as a little bumkinish and Biden came off some what as a politician. From reading everyone’s comments above it seems beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Biden beat her handily on substance, style, and points. She managed to bring herself into a position where many people can begin to view her as a potential VP. Although her strategy of not even providing a nodding answer to several questions was bothersome. I took it to mean that she was unprepared to answer the question. Presidents and VPs can’t be seen to duck important questions. Pity she doesn’t have Biden’s ability to open his mouth and spout BS at a moments notice.I was disappointed that the moderator didn’t reveal her potential conflict of interest. I suppose that, unlike physicians publishing in medical journals (where disclosure is mandatory), journalists are assumed to be ethically equipped to stay impartial.
I will concede that there were no catastrophic gaffes by Palin, but I saw what I expected – a dozen canned mini-speeches, thrown out whether they fit the question or not. I didn’t expect any Couric-style floundering, but I’d still love to see her in a real press conference. Remember, if she can’t face the press, how will she face Putin? As for Biden, I wouldn’t have picked him in a primary, but he looks like he’s up to the job of President if the worst should happen.
“Biden beat her handily on substance, style, and points.”I thought it was much closer, and that they both got in some good shots.”her strategy of not even providing a nodding answer to several questions was bothersome.”Yes, that was annoying. I hate when politicians use a question as an opportunity to make a speech on something else. That’s why I thought Biden did better. He actually answered more of the questions, although he did go off on tangents also. “Pity she doesn’t have Biden’s ability to open his mouth and spout BS at a moments notice.”Yeah, except that was all it was from Biden — just the same lame Democratic talking points everyone has heard thousands of times. I wish she had attacked some of them more effectively.”I was disappointed that the moderator didn’t reveal her potential conflict of interest.”True, although I don’t think it was any factor in the debate. Ifill basically just let them talk, and I didn’t think any of her questions were biased one way or the other.
David,Her not answering struck me as being due to her memorizing only a limited number of answers. If she got something other than what she had prepared for, her handlers likely told her to bring up one of her pat responses. Admitidly, most politicians use pat answers in these sorts of debates – it was just frustrating that she had so few of them.In any case, you’re right, she did get in some good shots, and seemed fairly at ease in the portions I watched (congrats to JTM for watching the whole thing).
“congrats to JTM for watching the whole thing”Thanks Piglito, it was a tough job but I figured I would take on for the team.
The more I think about it, the phonier she seems. McCain, Clinton, Obama, Huckabee, Biden, etc. (while we can argue about who’s the bigger liar) basically seem to be who they are. Genuine, if only in the presentation of their personality.Does anyone buy Daisy Moo’s hokum routine?
“The more I think about it, the phonier she seems”Why? She’s from Alaska and is basically a small town person. Why wouldn’t that be her actual personality? I’ve known quite a few people who have a simliar manner of speaking, (especially Southern women). I guess it could be an act, but without knowing her in person, it’s kind of hard to tell if she talks that way all the time.Also, since many people have been questioning her qualifications, wouldn’t she want to sound a bit more polished and cosmopolitan, rather than like a country girl?
“Biden beat her handily on substance, style, and points”I am wondering if Biden’s claim that the US with the help of France drove Hezzbollah out of Lebanon was a test of Palin to see if she would catch such a blunder.I mean it never happened and we are told that Biden was on the ticket because he is an expert on Foreign policy, so MUST have said it on purpose? I mean the Democrat’s expert on Foreign Policy could be not really BE that clueless, could he???
“The more I think about it, the phonier she seems”Why?”I know it is “hateful leftist” territory, but check out this post, “Desperate,” over at TPM. Mind you, “Troopergate” was an inquiry Palin initially “welcomed,” before she became a national VP candidate that is.Oh, I know you’ll revert to your patented “not proven” mode, but for my money, your folksy “country girl” from the backwoods is really this:Both as mayor and governor, Palin has shown the tell-tale signs of a politician who hires cronies and fires or blackballs critics. This part of Palin’s record gets deep in the weeds. So it’s not as flashy as the boffo interviews or and irresistible as the straight-up lies she’s been caught in. But we need no closer example than the Bush administration to know that people like this are dangerous and corrosive to our public institutions.MaCain should have vetted Daisy Mae. This is one roll of the dice that I think will come up snake eyes.
Redhand,Even if such accusations were true, which is highly doubtful (left-wing sites have been making stuff up about Palin since she was nominated), they aren’t really relevant to what I’m asking. How does it benefit her to sound like a simple country girl, when her qualifications for vice president have been under heavy attack?Also, even if she was the corrupt scheming politican of the left’s caricature, how would that prevent her from having the same style of speech?”MaCain should have vetted Daisy Mae. This is one roll of the dice that I think will come up snake eyes.”We’ll see. So far she’s been a plus for him politically. If he loses, it probably isn’t going to be because of Palin.
Also, even if she was the corrupt scheming politican of the left’s caricature, how would that prevent her from having the same style of speech?I’m not quite sure what your point is here, but note Sully’s post, Listen to the Accent. His comment:Just compare this recording of Palin in Alaska in 2006 to what you heard last night. Ask yourself where the folksiness is. See how many times she says “doggone” in 2006. Or “betcha”. Or “Joe Six-Pack”. Make up your own mind. In my judgment she is the biggest fraud we have seen in national politics in generations. She makes the Clintons look honest, and Nixon look as if he has nothing to hide.
Palin was scripted, but she managed to come off as a reasonable debater, I think. I read analysis after the debate about how Biden figured she was scripted and used the opportunity to take free shots at McCain. That makes sense, but she didn’t seem that scripted to me. She didn’t even seem incoherent – her run-ons weren’t any worse than Biden’s repetition.What did bother me was Palin’s assholish mention of Biden’s wife. Biden said something about the importance of teachers. Palin said, “Your wife, she was a teacher, she’s in heaven now, right?”, smirking without any trace of empathy or humanity.McCain wanted a woman as his VP, but got a gynoid instead.